Help!!

Today I checked my Twitter to find that someone had tweeted me:

"Hi @JosCanavan I have just seen your blog on a website that a friend contributed to. I think you are my guardian angel, I've emailed you at your Gmail account for some advice on non-graduate aspiring marketing students making it into this industry! Help !! x"

As I read Amy's email I couldn't help thinking how much she sounded like me in my final year of university. Of course I was more than happy to try and offer what advice I could. I thought it would be great if I published Amy's message and my reply, in order to share our dialogue in the hope it might help one or two of you. I would also be really happy (and I'm sure Amy would appreciate it too!) if anyone had any comments to make about her position, and to add to the advice I have given.

Hi Jos,

My name is Amy Jackson and I recently found your blog whilst reading a friends contribution to the website TargetjobsBloggers.

Your About Me section really interested me and I thought I'd email you mainly for some advice, I hope this is ok.

I am in my last two months at University studying a Journalism and English Literature degree. My dream job is to be a Marketing and Advertisiting Co-ordinator. However, after a four year degree of something that isn't directly related, I am struggling. At 18 I was unsure as what I wanted to do at University, but as the years have gone on, I've realised I have found something I am passionate about and feel I could put my whole self into.

I have done many placements in the last four years, I have travelled to Vietnam and Africa with the BBC, worked in publishing houses working with events management and helped to arrange many charity events around the North East. However, no immediate connection to Marketing and Advertising.

I have an interview on Thursday for a 5 month placement with DiFFERENT Marketing and Advertising, in Newcastle. The email I got back regarding a graduate job invited me along for a chat about my options, and they said I would be more suited for a PR role. I am unsure as to how this meeting will go and what my options are, but if you could give me some tips on how impress at this sort of interview, then I'd really appreciate it.

Besides not actually doing a marketing degree, I regulary read books about it and speak to other people who are involved in this industry. My experience is limited but I want to show I can learn quickly.

Best Wishes,

Amy Jackson

 

Hi Amy,

Thanks so much for getting in touch! It’s great to know that people are reading Jos Can and taking something from it, as well as the fact we are able to connect and share advice and experiences. Your email struck a chord with me as I was in your exact position in my third year of university.

You seem really on the ball though, passionate and knowledgeable, which will definitely work in your favour. You mentioned you read marketing-related books and network with people in the industry – this is a brilliant demonstration of your commitment and enthusiasm, and you should definitely bring this up in the interview. These traits will probably be your greatest assets.

You mention that you have been invited to have a “chat about your options”, which seems to imply that the exact nature of the placement is not set in stone or that there is more than one available. So they might start off by explaining a bit more about what it is they’re expecting the hired candidate(s) to get up to, which will be a great chance for you to make connections to your own interests and past experiences in order to demonstrate your suitability.

Equally they might ask you what sort of career you’re looking for in order to scope out how right you are for what they have in mind. In this instance, I wouldn’t spend too long talking about the exact thing you’re looking for. For example, if you were interested in doing events for big sports brands but they were looking for someone to support the social media for a food and beverages client, you could focus instead on what you want to get out of the role – “I’m looking for something challenging, where I can take on responsibility and make a difference to a company”…”I’m a fast learner so this would be a great experience to work alongside and learn from industry experts”..., but obviously tailor it to what it is you think they’re looking for.  In a lot of interviews I’ve been to, they have been hesitant about revealing that a lot of the role will be admin/support–focused as they are aware it is not very appealing, but although it wasn’t what I was after, by showing that I wasn’t loath to get involved with that sort of stuff I found my way in, which then provided a chance for me to prove myself in other tasks that came along as part of the role.

When preparing for an interview I find it a good exercise to imagine yourself as the interviewer and that you have someone you have never met before coming in to talk to you. What would you want to know? Surely: why has this person decided to try for the job? So this is where you would talk about your passion for marketing. You can say where your interest came from - perhaps a particular campaign that first caught your eye, or the fact that you have always paid attention to brands and how they are interacting with their consumers. You said you've come to realise you have "found something you're passionate about and could put your whole self into", so make sure they see that and you'll be halfway there!

Try not to present your degree as anything but an asset (I know I have a terrible tendency to jump straight in and apologise for my lack of marketing degree!) You can point out how your degree has allowed you to develop important skills, in writing (an obvious one)/analysing (from deciphering news articles)/teamwork (from any group project work) etc.… You know that you want a job that allows you to use these skills, and marketing, coupled with your interest in the industry, fits this well.

Please forgive my majorly vague interpretation of your degree! It just goes to show how not everyone will have a really distinct idea of what it is you worked on as part of your degree, so it’s really important that you can clearly explain what skills you developed, and translate that to the job role you’re after.  Similarly, don’t view the fact that you haven’t had any experience directly related to marketing as a flaw. I’ll bet you’ll have picked up lots of useful skills in your past work experiences – they sound really interesting and unique and I think they would make you stand out.

It’s my (cynical) suspicion that they have suggested PR because of your writing and journalism-focused degree. Don’t let them pigeon-hole you if that’s not what you’re interested in! If it turns out in the interview that the placement you are going for is more focused towards PR, take the opportunity to find out all you can about what you’d be doing, as well as opportunities for the future - the placement is still likely to be worthwhile, and you certainly don't want to reject it then and there.

So! There's my humble advice - has anyone else got any comments to help Amy before her interview? Maybe you're in the same position as her and have struggled due to a lack of relevant experience. Are you from a similar course and able to pinpoint the key benefits/transferable skills of her degree? Or are you in the same boat and just want to complain! Even any words of encouragement that have come to mind whilst reading Amy's message. Personally, I think she sounds like she would be a great asset to any marketing team, and even if this opportunity isn't right or doesn't work out, that she'll no doubt go on to be successful in pursuing her dream. 

Guest blog post by language grad, Marie

Visit Marie's blog at
Grad and Looking

Today's post has been written by Marie, a French and Cultural Studies graduate whose career goal is to work in advertising. She writes spiritedly about the intense competition faced by those of us chasing our dreams in this popular industry, and highlights the main challenges and, even more helpfully, how we can face them.

Her story, of how she was inspired to carry out an internship in China in order to get that little bit closer to her dream job, emphasises just how much of a challenge today's job market can be. As she rightly points out, an internship abroad is not a viable option for all of us, but it just goes to show how important it is to make the most of the opportunities we are presented with. And, as I pointed out in my TARGETjobs blog post last week, the extra hurdles that we have to jump will just make us that much stronger candidates than if we had only to walk to the finish line.

Graduated and looking…

Hey everyone! My name’s Marie and like Jos (and many of you reading this) I am trying to break into the increasingly difficult marcoms industry – more specifically advertising.  A recent French and Cultural Studies graduate from the University of Sussex I know that there are two main things that advertising agencies think twice about when I apply:

1) I don’t come from a business/marketing/advertising background

2) My lack of agency experience (particularly because when I was first applying for grad schemes this time last year, I’d only had a couple of weeks of experience at an independent B2B agency in London)

So what to do you when any one of those two things are held against you? Well determination and pro-activeness play a huge part.  During my final year last year I applied for virtually nearly every advertising grad scheme that was out there that appealed to me, from AMV BBDO, to Iris, to Ogilvy, balancing uni deadlines with application deadlines, which always seemed to coincide. Unfortunately, despite all the hard work, out of the fifteen or so applications I sent I only received one invitation to interview (and as you can see from this blog entry, I didn’t get through to that agency’s assessment day that year). What had I done wrong? I had worked so hard and spent so much time on every single application. Couldn’t they see my extreme passion for the industry and eagerness to learn? I knew that my lack of experience was my main hindrance and that I needed to go out and get some, but I also knew that if I didn’t focus on the one important matter of gaining a good degree, my chances of working within the industry could be taken away from me completely. So for the last few months of my degree, I knuckled down and the hard work of a 4-year course finally paid off! But as graduation approached, reality dawned on me. Whenever bumping into relatives and family friends the same old questions and exclamations kept resurfacing, “What will you do now you’ve finished?”, “What, you haven’t got a job!?”, “There are lots of sales and recruitment roles out there, why don’t you pursue those options instead?”, “How about teaching? Lots of language students go into teaching…”.  The questions were never-ending, and whilst annoying, I knew that they all had my best interest at heart. But I didn’t want to go into sales, or recruitment, or teaching despite the constant competition and rejection I knew I was putting myself up for. There were simply industries that I wasn’t passionate about.  As the questions kept flooding in I started to do some research and finally found my solution: I was going to do an internship… in Shanghai.

Yes, that’s right Shanghai, China. I took the extreme option of moving halfway across the world for several months in order for me to get some of that integral work experience under my belt. And what an experience it was! It was undoubtedly worth every single penny that I had scrimped and saved up for during the summer at my part-time job. But why China of all places? Well three reasons really. Firstly, I’ve always had a soft spot for China, having grown up in Hong Kong until the age of 11, and I knew that I always wanted to go back. Secondly, being a language geek, I knew sometime after uni I wanted to start learning Mandarin, so what better excuse than to go and learn the language whilst being immersed by it! And finally, and maybe most importantly, the fact that China is an emerging market, that has not only become the second largest global ad market but that it is expected to surpass the UK and become the biggest consumer market in the next 10-15 years. As a result of this huge expansion, I know that employers, no matter what industry you want to go into, will start to look for potential employees who have had experience and understand the subtle differences between China and the West. It was easy for me. I didn’t need much persuading as I have never been one to be afraid of a challenge, particularly one that involved travelling and living abroad, having already spent a year living in France in my 3^rd year.

So last October, after 4 months of saving, I said goodbye to my family and friends, got on a plane and joined 30 other interns from around the world to take part in a two-month internship organised by CRCC Asia Ltd. I was working as a marketing and events intern for a small independent local advertising agency whose main channel is a website dedicated to helping expats moving to and living in Shanghai (I wont go into great detail about my internship but if you want to know more about what I did there feel free to visit my blog www.gradandlooking.blogspot.com). Whilst it wasn’t specifically an advertising internship that I had initially asked for when applying for the programme, I threw myself into it and as I was working for an SME, I learnt an extensive amount about event marketing, event management and social media marketing, and was given a huge amount of responsibility from negotiating with sponsors to devising and planning the agency’s biggest event of the year! I also learnt about Chinese business culture, including the importance of networking and guan’xi, and keeping ones face (mian’xi) and more importantly I learnt so much about myself as a person. Despite the never-ending cultural shocks that I faced in a city that is in a continuous state of change and growth, I never felt lost.  Even though frustration became a frequent sentiment in my day-to-day life as a graduate on my very own journey to the East, I learnt and improved upon many skills that were unbeknown to me! Whether it was my acting abilities during my first weekend when trying to look for coat hangers and struggling to find the word in my phrasebook (I am proud to say that I am pretty good at charades now!), or my ability in hiding my true feelings towards some unknown Chinese delicacy that I had to eat out of politeness (there were many dishes whose ingredients were unrecognisable, and perhaps to my relief will continue to remain unknown), or successfully holding my own on the metro and reaching my desired metro stop without being shoved and pushed off the stop before, Shanghai showed me that I can adapt to any unfamiliar situation.

Now I’m back in the UK, my life in Shanghai seems like a blur and I miss China terribly – I know it’s a place I would love to return to in the future to live and work. So what am I doing now? Well unfortunately I missed out on the majority of advertising grad schemes whilst away, but I have managed to apply for the few schemes whose deadlines were after Christmas and consequently been invited to interviews and an assessment day. I am also applying to entry-level advertising account executive job vacancies that I have seen, but surprisingly I have seen that even with me having several months of experience, for most vacancies this isn’t enough – they want at least a year’s worth! We just can’t win. For that reason I feel that grad schemes are so important to aspiring ad execs like myself, and that more companies should have them, or at least have a few trainee vacancies as many of us cannot afford to work for free for a year, especially with our student debt looming above us! Without a doubt my two-months of overseas experience have been integral to the success of my grad scheme applications this year, and I now have so much more to talk about during those important competency based questions that we are all so familiar with! However despite the fact that there is a high possibility that I may have to undertake some more work experience whilst working part time, I do not regret any part of my expensive decision to go abroad. I am not saying that you all have to go to the same extreme lengths that I have (after all going all the way to China might not appeal to everyone’s tastes and pockets), but that the key to getting noticed in the marcoms industry is to definitely get as much work experience as you can whether it’s an independent local agency or one in the big cities like London, Manchester, Birmingham etc. It really annoys me when I see headlines and reports stating how lazy our generation are. If they call people who are working for free for months on end just to get a foot on the career ladder in order to start paying off our scarily high debts lazy, I don’t know what more they expect from us. We all just have to keep at it and maintain our sense of humour. Be determined, be pro-active, be patient, and hopefully someone somewhere will see how much we want that ever-important first job. Good luck to you all J!

Marie xox

(If you have any questions or comments please don’t hesitate to contact me by following me on Twitter @mklw20 or connecting with me on LinkedIn).

Human Sciences

Since leaving uni I feel like I've rather forgotten my old love for science. So when I recently re-discovered a book I had read whilst applying to study science at university, Unweaving the Rainbow by Richard Dawkins, I found myself transported back to the 17 year old me who was so inspired by science and the challenge of its study.

Forget every preconception you have about Dawkins and his attitudes to religion. Whatever your religious beliefs, it is true that his heavy-handedness regarding his position on the absolute truth of science might make his character, and consequently any of his publications, unappealing to some. But if you have read any of his books (and you really should), you will know just how intensely passionate he is about science. It is a popular notion that scientific truths are far less wondrous than their religious or supernatural counterparts, and it is this belief that Dawkins aims to discredit in Unweaving The Rainbow. It is not a book that shoves atheism down your throat, but a handbook for those who think that there is no mystery to appreciate behind the wonder of science. Dawkins distinguishes features of our universe that demonstrate this wonder, delineating the mystique behind scientific triumphs such as evolutionary time, light and DNA fingerprinting. He carefully offers analogies and thorough examples in order to deepen the reader's understanding, with enjoyable wit and astounding intellect, which even extends to a peppering of poetic quotation that would make even the artsiest science-phobe feel at ease.

The opening lines of the book, which Dawkins has long earmarked to be read at his funeral, offer a taste of the scientific wonder that he presents to the reader:

"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively outnumbers the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here. We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?"

Such an outlook is probably quite a radical one for most of us, and this same feeling is replicated throughout the book, as Dawkins unweaves the technicalities of the wonders of this world that can only be fully appreciated through a scientific examination.

Science versus The Arts

For some reason, it seems to be an unhappy trend for science to be viewed by the general public as scary and inaccessible, not to mention boring. The average person will know at least a little bit about literature, geography, history, and other 'arts' subjects, but the components of science, as numerous as they are, always seem to be lumped together, with outsiders knowing very little about sub divisions of science, and barely caring. This leads me to the purpose of this post, which is not, as it might have seemed up until now, to review a favourite popular science book of mine (although I definitely recommend you read it, whatever your background!), but to use it as a springboard to write a little about my degree.

"What is Human Sciences?"

Explaining my degree has been a formidable task ever since I applied for it. There is no easy way to explain it, since it is comprised of such vastly different topics; pretty much all of the modules I took as part of my degree were completely different. I can't even categorise it by saying that it is the study of humans from all different angles, because a small proportion of my modules were to do with animals! Bit of a nightmare (especially when incorrect assumptions regarding its content lead me places I don't expect, see previous blog post).

The responses I have met with over the years have consistently been ones of confusion.

"I do/did Human Sciences."

"*Pause. Look blank*
"Is that Human Biology?"
No it is not Human Biology, if it was Human Biology it would be called Human Biology.

"So you're training to be a doctor?"
No, little sister, I am not doing medicine. And please stop going around telling everyone I am, since I've been home for Christmas I've had two family friends come up to me in Tesco and congratulate me.

"Is that about sex and stuff?"
Yes, my degree is entirely about sex. Not. [Actually parts of it was to be fair. Interesting stuff ;)]

"Is that even a real degree?"
Of course it's a real degree! Oxford offer it! 

The actual answer is not a simple one.

For anyone who might actually be interested(!), here's a link to the UCL website where you can read some information about the degree. As is noted, there is incredible scope for flexibility and almost complete freedom in what you can choose to study. Your first year is a compulsory mix of what you might call the more hardcore sciences (Anatomy, Biochemistry, Genetics and Physiology), alongside social science modules (Geography, Anthropology and Psychology), as well as Statistics - an important lesson for any student of science. The aim is to provide you with a basic grounding in the social, medical, behavioural and biological study of humans so that you are well able to choose which direction you wish to pursue your studies according to your interests.

In second and third years you are able to choose literally any module you want from the whole university, which amounts to over 50 options across numerous departments. The range available reflects what I've already mentioned - that is, a mix of the life and behavioural/social sciences - but some options that you might not expect include Philosophy, History (of Art/Medicine/Science), Business, Archaeology, Economics and Earth Sciences to name a few. The only stipulation in choosing modules is that you must choose courses from at least three departments, so as to ensure that the degree is inter-disciplinary. This is also reflected in the research project (that dreaded 'dissertation') of your third year, which must be focused on two or three different disciplines, at least one social and one biological. Mine was an exploration of the study of how human altruism has evolved, from the perspectives of evolutionary biology, economics and neuroscience; but other examples of Human Sciences dissertations include topics such as: obesity, pain, cholera, and human mating preferences. This gives you some idea of just how drastically different the Human Sciences degree can be for each student.

What do employers think about Human Sciences?

So hopefully now you know a little more about what is involved in the Human Sciences degree! I believe it is a degree only offered by about five or six universities in England, and the course structure and content differs vastly between these unis too. So I recognise that I cannot expect a lot of people to be completely familiar with it. As I touched on before, I find it a shame that the vast subdivisions within science are generally less well understood than arts subjects. Everyone has a pretty clear impression of what an English degree involves; but how employers view my degree is a concern of mine. Does it spark their interest or even make me stand out as a candidate with a unique background? Or does the lack of clarity regarding its content leave them unsure about my suitability to a role? What with marketing employers seemingly tending to favour arts degrees such as English owing to their heavy focus on writing, I fear that employers will be misled by the degree name and type (Human Sciences BSc) and will discount me as lacking in this skill.

Do I regret studying Human Sciences?

Despite these concerns, rereading Unweaving The Rainbow following the completion of my degree has been a pleasant reminder of how, no matter how frustrating my job hunt gets, I have no regrets about my choice of degree course. Often I have found myself getting frustrated when my degree is overlooked (or maybe worse, looked at too intently - again see previous blog post). But the thrill of academic study, in particular the unique and varied course of study I undertook, is something that I would have always regretted not aiming for.

Doing an academic degree allowed me to satisfy my appetite for learning for its own sake, and also take some quite cool classes  (looking at human bones in archaeology, tutorials about the evolution of homosexuality, free trips to London Zoo) which I probably won't have the chance to do again. It also meant I was motivated to obtain as much knowledge and experience in my chosen field as possible in order to compete with marketing students, a challenge that I have really enjoyed. I want to, and will hopefully, work in marketing for the rest of my life, and so far I have not met with too much of a challenge having to 'learn on the job'. So, really, I am very glad to have spent my three years at uni as a 'Humsci' :)

Guest blog post by fellow academic grad, Galina

Today's post is written by Galina Rusak, a Cambridge graduate who wants very much to get into advertising. Galina contacted me after seeing a tweet by Milkround about my blog (yay!), and I asked her if she would be interested in sharing some of her story here. Galina is very passionate about getting her dream job, as is pretty obvious from her application to Saatchi and Saatchi, which has seen her create a Facebook page called The Graduate. The page is somewhere where all those who are chasing their dream jobs can gather together to share information and tips - I recommend that anyone who is on the edge of embarking on their career Like this page. 

 I hope you enjoy what Galina has to say. I'm very excited to publish her post as I'm sure it will resonate with a lot of you.

If at first you don't succeed...

This week has been rather confusing. A lot of positive things have happened. One of them was that I was invited by Joscelyne to write this guest blog. Another was that I received an email from a big Advertising agency letting me know I'm through to the second round of their application process! I felt so good after I got that email. But then, I got another one. A Marketing company to which I had sent my CV and Cover Letter, emailed me that I was not short-listed for an interview. It really does confuse me sometimes how HR people go about selecting the right candidates from, admittedly, a seemingly infinite number of applicants. But that's a topic for a different blog post.

You know, I'm not unused to being rejected (by institutions and companies, I mean). When I first contacted the University of Cambridge with questions about their undergraduate selective process, they advised me to explore other options. That didn't stop me from chasing my dream. I applied a couple of years later, after having obtained further qualifications, and I got in. I am now a proud Cambridge graduate with a BA(Hons) in Classics. My degree opened up a whole new world to me! Its multidisciplinary nature (languages, literature, history, philosophy, linguistics, art and archaeology) meant I had to think differently depending on what subject I was working on. Towards the end of my degree, I could combine these different types of thinking and apply them to a single problem. This is a highly transferrable skill to any profession. I'm sure you can think of at least one valuable skill that you've acquired at uni, too.

I also got rejected last year when I applied to that same Advertising agency I mentioned above. Back then my CV must have ended up in the bin straight away. I learned my lesson. I realised that, just like with Cambridge, I needed to get a bit more experience and show a lot more commitment if I wanted them to consider my application.

After I graduated last Summer, I did a marketing internship in a small start-up. It taught me a lot. I had to work out how to create and run a Google AdWords campaign, for starters. The product we were providing was a sustainability management software, so I had to read up on sustainable development issues, energy efficiency, corporate social responsibility and carbon reduction commitment. The few months I spent in this company proved invaluable to me. A business is a business and, whatever industry you have chosen to build a career in, you stand no chance unless you can demonstrate that you are reliable and professional. I believe that the applications I send out now are much stronger than those I sent in my final year at uni. It is because I take my time to think about what role I'm applying to, what skills and competencies to highlight in my Cover Letter, and most importantly, what company I'm applying to! Last year I used applications as a welcome break from writing my essays. I had fun with them. There were bold projects and long creative sessions with my friends. None of that paid off. I do think that this year I got through to the second round with the Advertising company in question because my approach was much more structured. I researched their work and their sub-divisions and applied my knowledge when answering the questions on their application form. I also read a couple of books on Advertising which gave me an insight into the nature of the work so I could mention more relevant skills and experiences in my CV. David Ogilvy's book, Ogilvy on Advertising (1983) is an absolute must if you want to work in Advertising. The book was written before terms like “social media”, “digital marketing” and “triple bottom line” even existed but it is still considered The Bible for advertisers.

Going back to that second email and the rejection from the Marketing company... I actually emailed them back today saying that they should reconsider their decision. After all, my experience has taught me to always try again! In my email, I attached a link to a Facebook page I created  on Monday called The Graduate. The page functions as a hub for students, graduates and anyone who is trying to get a job they actually want in the tough economic climate in which we have found ourselves. The Graduate is, in fact, my response to Saatchi and Saatchi's Brief 1 for their Summer Scholarship. The idea is that I must accumulate as many Like's as possible to be allowed to move on to Brief 2. If you would like to have a look and see what other people have already shared on The Graduate Facebook Wall, feel free! Perhaps you'll find a link or a suggestion there that will lead you to your Dream Job. Or you could share something you know that could help someone else? I would also really appreciate it if you could Like and Share the page with your friends so I can get a little bit closer to my Dream Job.

I'll be happy to answer any questions about applications I've made and what the results were, how I answered questions, and, if I'm lucky enough to have a few interviews this time around, I'd gladly share my experiences with you. Just keep an eye on The Graduate and use it to get in touch with me.